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vlogbrothers

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:51 pm

I love both of these guys so much, but I was kind of disappointed with some of their reactions to the abuse stories. Specifically Alex Day. Like it all really started with Tom Milsom's victim coming forward and they reacted really quickly and took his merchandise off DFTBA right away, which was reasonable. But soon after, Alex Day stories came out and they needed "~time to react properly, had to understand the situation more, etc etc." It wasn't until Alex contacted them and said they should take his merchandise down that it was taken off DFTBA.
It's obvious that Alex is the probably the most famous of the abusers, at least obviously more famous than Tom. So I just worry that they were less willing to take appropriate action because of the ~scandal involved with Alex. Like, no, we should not be taking people's fame into account when punishing abusers and protecting victims. I can't read their minds but this is really how it came across to me and it was disappointing.
That said, they are working to do some things to combat this cycle of abuse within youtube and I'm glad for that. I still like and respect them a lot, but I really wish some things were handled differently idk

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:43 pm

I have Looking for Alaska and TFiOS. To me they were okay, but I didn't love them or feel the urge to reread them.

I was also disappointed by John and Hank's follow up to the abuse posts, in particular Hank's because of DFTBA Records. There were statements issued about Mike and Tom, but it seemed like they only posted about Alex Day when he asked them to remove his merch and IIRC Hank even reblogged one of Alex's statements with no further comments. I thought John would say more, since his assistant Rosianna was one of those who spoke out against Alex Carpenter. Hank's video on sexual abuse and consent was well and good, but fans who don't follow his Tumblr would not understand the full context with which he made it.

Though Luke Conard's music was removed from DFTBA Record's website, nothing was said about the allegations against him or his removal. As I mentioned in Luke's thread, even after the subsequent fallout he is STILL listed as a special guest on VidCon's website, the convention which was created and organized by the Vlogbrothers. Kristina Horner is also a special guest and seeing as she is friends with John and Hank, I'm surprised Luke hasn't been removed after Kristina's post about him.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:53 pm

haimm wrote:I love both of these guys so much, but I was kind of disappointed with some of their reactions to the abuse stories. Specifically Alex Day. Like it all really started with Tom Milsom's victim coming forward and they reacted really quickly and took his merchandise off DFTBA right away, which was reasonable. But soon after, Alex Day stories came out and they needed "~time to react properly, had to understand the situation more, etc etc." It wasn't until Alex contacted them and said they should take his merchandise down that it was taken off DFTBA.
It's obvious that Alex is the probably the most famous of the abusers, at least obviously more famous than Tom. So I just worry that they were less willing to take appropriate action because of the ~scandal involved with Alex. Like, no, we should not be taking people's fame into account when punishing abusers and protecting victims. I can't read their minds but this is really how it came across to me and it was disappointing.
That said, they are working to do some things to combat this cycle of abuse within youtube and I'm glad for that. I still like and respect them a lot, but I really wish some things were handled differently idk


Hank and Alex were close. He was dealing with it not only on a public scale, but a personal one as well. How would you feel if someone you KNEW and hung out with did all of those things?

I thought they should have made a video explaining as well, but I also don't think John and Hank should be held up on this pedestal where they have to act perfectly. They're only human as well, and nobody knows exactly what to do all the time.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:12 am

On the topic of John Green's books I read TFIOS and it was good but like MadeinCanada said its good for holiday type reading I'm starting to read paper towns and I much prefer it to TFIOS and to be honest I gave up after the second chapter of Looking for Alaska as it didn't draw me in.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:28 am

I think I was 16 years old when I first read Looking for Alaska and Paper Towns. I really enjoyed them then, and to this day I still really enjoy Looking for Alaska. I've read it so many times and it just never gets old for me.

I also did enjoy TFIOS, however I was quite a bit older when I read it, and I didn't relate to the characters as much.
I think John is a great writer, and I think his writing speaks to younger (16 and down, perhaps) readers.
I agree that the TFIOS movie looks like just another chick-flick. Which is kinda sad really, because the book is more than that.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:48 am

LFA is and will always be one of my favourite books, and I've thoroughly almost all of John's books apart from TFIOS. I enjoyed it, but I don't have this raging admiration for it like most people do. I understand why it meant a lot to a lot of people, but it wasn't Esther's story, however much John couldn't have written it without knowing her.

I've always considered myself to be a nerdfighter, I still do and I've loved the vlogbrothers but idk I haven't been keeping as close tabs on their videos and stuff recently. Not sure why. I have become very disillusioned with them after the allegations came out, and while I agree with kabukixo that they shouldn't been put on a pedestal (the whole we have to wait for John or Hank to respond before we'll believe it attitude around that time was awful imo) I was gutted that John was accused of having known that Alex was a dick and apparently actively warning people in the community, and he didn't address that at all. I understand DFTBARecords is Hank's company but he left it basically all to Hank to deal with, and that part wasn't about him so naturally he's only going to discuss the consent issue. They do have a lot of teenage fans and talking about calling people out on their problematic behaviour would have been an interesting thing to add to the whole discussion at the time imo.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:43 am

I personally understand why they took their time with the Alex Day allegations and everything that happened afterwards. Try to understand from their point that left and right victims were coming forward about various big youtubers (bigger than Alex) and quite a few of them turned out to be fictitious. If they would have pulled Alex's content the minute they heard the allegations and they turned out to be false than they would have been in all sorts of legal trouble. Not to mention the allegations about having a sexual relationship with a minor are a lot more serious (in the eyes of the law/on paper) than girlfriends coming out saying that their ex partners manipulated them into agreeing to have sex/cheated on them. I think its better that they allowed Alex to make his own choice to remove his music/merch. He pretty much proved that he had in fact done wrong rather than Hank and John condemning him. Which is not their job.

Another HUGE note to make is that while John and Hank own (and I believe Hank has a bigger hands on role in) DFTBA records, the daily goings on/decision making done for the company are not made by them. They have to take a lot of flack for choices that people under them have made, and they have done so without throwing any of them under the bus like a lot of corporations would have done. I commended them for that.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:46 pm

Wow, I was expecting to get so much shit for trashing John's writing on here. I'm glad some of you agree. It's a pretty unpopular opinion as far as the rest of the internet world goes. Although that portion is comprised mostly of 13 year old girls on Tumblr. Guess I shouldn't be surprised considering the forum I'm on. ;)

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:25 pm

I remember reading Looking for Alaska in 2006/2007, I was in junior high. While I've always enjoyed YA lit as a guilty pleasure, I was never really awestruck by John Green's literature. I think he is capable of writing beyond that but YA is a very forgiving bracket imo.

I will say that while I can see faults (no pun intended) in Tfios, it struck a chord with me when I read it because the protagonist reminded me of a friend who passed of cancer in high school. I'm sure it has the same effect on many people. Also, in Canada, at a major book chain called Chapters they *always* have it as a recommended book ever since it came out.

I agree though, I've seen people with honest critiques of the novel, not even hating on it or any of his work get torn apart by 13 y.o on tumblr. You can't even reason with them. I tried to talk with one girl and she told me John Green is a superior novelist to Rowling to Tolkien.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:51 am

I don't watch the vlogbrothers much any more, although I do follow them on Tumblr and quite enjoy nerdfighteria and their channels CrashCourse and SciShow. I like Hank and John (I probably prefer Hank) But I get really tired of them so I go through bouts of watching lots of vlogbrothers videos... to absolutely none. I also do like Hank's songs, but I'm very into the Wizard Wrock thing and I like the nerdy songs and stuff. Hank's not the best musician but hey, I like him and I understand it's not everyone's thing.

About John's writing. I liked Looking for Alaska (but I read it when I was a Freshmen so I can't say any valid critique on it now) but I hated, hated, HATED Will Grayson Will Grayson, Paper Towns, and An Abundance of Katherines. (I don't know if he has any other novels other than TFIOS) For one thing I found those books all around boring. So that didn't help things much. Also I didn't find the characters likable, the overall story I felt was stupid, and all of John's quirky things he added to it was so annoying and felt really weird. I just didn't like those books at all and I really didn't understand the hype for his writing.

Now I really liked TFIOS. It felt more real to me and I enjoyed the experiences the characters had and the relationships they had. I do believe there was some character development there (but it wasn't too noticable, they took me a few reads to find) And I just appreciated the story and how it wasn't super atypical. (In my opinion) Obviously the book isn't perfect, and the characters aren't perfect, but overall I actually loved the book and was super surprised I liked it. I related to the characters a lot too.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:19 am

I've read TFIOS & recently read Looking for Alaska. TFIOS was a great book - witty, different, and heartbreaking. I was relieved when I was done LFA because it was dull and everyone except for Alaska herself was a boring character. It was like a subpar version of The Perks.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:28 am

What bothers me about John Green's books are all the references. When I got to the first one, I thought "Cool, I know why he put that in!" but it stops being clever pretty fast. When I got to the alcoholic author who wasn't the one Hazel ~imagined him to be~ I was actually angry.
He is more about ideas than plot in his books which would be fine if he wouldn't have already explained that idea way better and more interesting in a 4 minute long video.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Sat May 03, 2014 12:22 am

Something about John Green creeps me out, and I can't figure out what it is. I'm thinking it has something to do with the way he writes teen girls. I mean, I like the guy as a YouTuber and he seems to be a decent father, but his writing is just so...so...I don't even know how to describe it. I feel like "bland" is a bit harsh. He's a good writer. His books just aren't written for me. Maybe if I read them as a teenager, I'd like them. But I'm turning 23 soon, and I can safely say nothing about Alaska or TFIOS appealed to me. TFIOS at least had a point, but Alaska was just...what the fuck even happened in that book?

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Sat May 03, 2014 12:38 am

gr4pefruits wrote:Something about John Green creeps me out, and I can't figure out what it is. I'm thinking it has something to do with the way he writes teen girls. I mean, I like the guy as a YouTuber and he seems to be a decent father, but his writing is just so...so...I don't even know how to describe it. I feel like "bland" is a bit harsh. He's a good writer. His books just aren't written for me. Maybe if I read them as a teenager, I'd like them. But I'm turning 23 soon, and I can safely say nothing about Alaska or TFIOS appealed to me. TFIOS at least had a point, but Alaska was just...what the fuck even happened in that book?


I'm 24 and I feel that I can very much still appreciate John Green's books. I think I love the characters more than the plots though. I equally love everything about TFiOS and Will Grayson Will Grayson. <3 I will say I didn't enjoy Paper Towns or An Abundance of Katherines as much, but I still liked them enough to finish them pretty quickly lol.

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Re: vlogbrothers

Post by Guest » Tue May 27, 2014 9:42 am

I was gonna ask what people thought of John as a writer but I guess you guys beat me to it lol.

I'v read two and a half of his books (I'll explain the half in a sec).
I don't think John is a great writer, but he isn't terrible either. His writing style isn't anything special, his plots aren't usually consistently interesting and at times he fails to lure in readers (exc. TFIOS).

I've read TFIOS (obvs) and thought it was a good book, not great or incredible but it was good and a joy to read. The plot and characters were interesting but the main thing was the emotional aspects of it, which was the greatest factor in making the novel a success.
I've also read Will Grayson, Will Grayson (co-written by another author), it was a funny witty book, but there wasn't much of a story, so it took a while for me to get interested, until one day I just read it all because I couldn't bear having a book on my shelf that I hadn't read :D The characters were also good and were developed on an acceptable level.
I've only read half of An Abundance of Katherines. It was so boring- no hint of the plot or any good story that motivated me to read the rest, nothing really interested me either. It had witty ideas that I think John wanted to include but had less development overall.

Again, John is an alright writer. I think TFIOS was the best piece of work he's produced. I want to enjoy his books though, as he seems like such a nice person who loves writing and it makes me want to buy Paper Towns and LFA (also because I heard LFA is planned to become a movie lol). His books are definitely hyped up and popular due to his fanbase. TFIOS is his most recent book isn't it? Hopefully he's improving :toad:

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